were they lone wolves? >> where did they get the explosives in where did they get the guns? to me this indicates a higher level of training. >> family members say after talks with -- tamerlan seemed to have changed. became more radical in his views. who misha is we still don't know. >> truth is terror as a weapon is losing. >> how do we give asylum to people from islamic countries? >> we're going to have to cut off muslim students from coming to this country. >> should we really be teaching them nuclear physics? >> i want us to be able to go through this process in a way that does not demonize the entire religion. >> 90% of worldwide terrorism is radical islam. >> i find it funny that people who are angry at you over cutting off student visas are usually less angry about terrorists cutting off people's heads. >> everyone's been attacking us happens to be. >> islam is being hijacked by these people. >> these are not 6'7" norwegians.

good afternoon. we begin with the breakneck race to connect the dots in the boston marathon bombing. to bring a case against the perpetrators and to prevent such acts going forward. at this moment, the house intelligence committee is gathering for a closed briefing on the bombing as investigators are beginning to create a portrait of the two suspects. in this case, it may be its sheer simplicity that is the most troubling. questioned from his hospital bed, surviving suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev has told investigators he and his brother were motivated by extremist islamic beliefs but that they acted alone. learning how to build bombs with a few clicks to an online al qaeda magazine. now, if that's corroborated, it's the kind of threat authorities have long feared. lone actors, apparently self-trained, escaping scrutiny as they plot their deadly deeds. and as the intelligence

community faces scrutiny over its handling of the case, nbc's pete williams has learned more about the timeline of contacts between russia and the united states. in early 2011, the russians contact the fbi requesting information about tamerlan tsarnaev, indicating he's becoming radical. the fbi opens a threat assessment, but finds no terrorism activity. they press the russians for more information. but the russians don't respond. in september 2011, the russians send the same request. this time to the cia. the cia checks with the fbi, sees that the matter has been examined with no results. the fbi again asks for more information. once again, russia does not respond. this is where the cia may have entered tamerlan into the so-called tides database. sending a ping if the subject travels. it should be noted, these are very common.

according to one official, an agent may get 30 to 40 pings a day. but no action would be taken unless it's a pending case. that ping did come, however, when tamerlan flew to moscow in january of 2012. but because his case was closed, no further action was taken. the white house today defended the fbi, but said the president wants a full review of the case. >> he wants every agency involved in this to do a broad investigation into what happened, what we knew, what inspired and motivated these two individuals, and the steps that they took that led to the terrorist attacks in boston. >> the question of why weighed heavily on the public memorial today for mit police officer sean collier, allegedly shot by the suspects. vice president joe biden called the suspects twisted, perverted, cowardly knockoff jihadis.

and insisted they're driven by nothing but fear. >> it infuriates them that we refuse to bend, refuse to change, refuse to yield to fear. the doctrine of hate and oppression they've found out cannot compete with the values of openness and inclusiveness. and that's why they're losing. >> the vice president went on to thank the many police officers present for standing in the line between ourselves and danger every single day. i want to bring in nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff with us from boston. mike, the vice president says these knockoff jihadis as we called them were motivated by outright fear. but what are the latest details that we're learning about the suspects and who they really are? >> reporter: well, look, there

are still very big outstanding questions. most prominently, what drove them to this act? who might have radicalized them? as we've reported over the last few days, dzhokhar tsarnaev has told investigators they acted alone. they learned how to build the bomb over the internet from "inspire" magazine. they were motivated by a desire to defend islam because of the u.s. wars in iraq and afghanistan. but there's still the outstanding question, what would have -- what changed? who radicalized them? we know that when that russian fsb request to the fbi comes, it says, interestingly, that tamerlan tsarnaev has become a follower of radical islam and that he has changed drastically. that suggests they had some information from -- from somebody close to him or somebody who knew him who had seen some transformation. you put that together with what

the uncle has told nbc news for the last few days. >> right. >> reporter: that there was a mysterious character named misha of armenian descent who played a role in this, who had undue influence over tamerlan. and then, of course, after that russian request, he goes over to russia, tamerlan does, and spends six months there. goes to dagestan, goes to chechnya. both hotbeds of islamic radicalism. who did he meet with there? who did he talk to there? and did that play a role? >> so we don't have answers to any of these questions. we don't even know yet the identity of this mysterious misha right thousand. but those are all questions that the fbi is asking right now as we are in the media. >> of course. and there was some speculation, mike, that the suspects were planning attacks here in new york. may even have been headed here at one point after boston. police commissioner ray kelly knocked that down today. take a listen to this. >> we know, there's a picture of

them in times square. he's there with four other individuals. it may have been words to the effect of coming to party in new york. >> words to the effect they were going to party in new york? i mean, that's just bizarre, isn't it? >> reporter: well, look, there is a lot that's bizarre here, martin. nothing seems to add up. remember, this comes on a -- from somebody, we believe it's most likely the victim in the carjacking, who has had his car -- who's been the victim right after the bombing, just a few days -- a few hours after they've been identified. remember what also happens that night. they -- they killed that mit police officer. officer collier who there was a memorial service in cambridge for today. now, that doesn't square with a bunch of kids going out to party. when they're killing a police officer. or hurling ieds at police in a shootout. so i think that none of this

adds up at this point. we've got to be skeptical about some of these comments because they don't fit into any clear narrative at all. >> michael isikoff, as ever, mike, thanks so much. i want to bring in congressman charles rangel, democrat of new york, with us from capitol hill. good afternoon, sir. >> hi, martin. >> it's increasingly clear that these individuals were not under the control of any international terror organization like al qaeda. but were self-motivated, did their worst alone. how do you respond to the suggestion that american wars in afghanistan and iraq may have provoked these men to maim and murder people in boston? >> i think standing alone, we lost a lot of friends in this country. there's absolutely no civil excuse for any human being to kill innocent people. but if you couple this with people that already have

emotional problems and feel some dictate to strike out against the supreme being, i mean, we are the international leaders of the world. and some of the things that we do with drones, presence of military troops, invasions of countries without congressional approval, annoys many americans. so i can imagine that in some of the countries and developing countries, even the terrorists are using as an excuse and only excuse a military presence in some muslim countries. >> so are you -- are you saying, sir, that the price of fighting wars overseas is a war at home? >> there's no question that people who have problems that come to the united states and bring those problems with them as police commissioner kelly said, it's so difficult for us to track down each one of them.

but i am personally glad that one of these people survived so, perhaps, we can get some information so that we can close up the dots. because anything anybody says except the investigators is just speculating. what they have done just doesn't make any sense at all. >> okay. well, we now know from pete williams that the russians asked about both the fbi and the cia about tamerlan tsarnaev almost 12 years after 9/11. does it concern you that this man was able to slip through the cracks in this way? >> it concerns me a great deal. i recognize the rights of privacy and the rights of an american citizen. but when a foreign country thinks it's important enough to alert our cia and our fbi, i certainly want to know what reasons they had to close this

case. this is especially so when homeland security knew that one of them was traveling back to russia. so, no, there's a lot of questions we have to raise on our side. and a lot of lessons that we have to raise. >> okay. >> but one thing we know, we got the technology, we got the heart, and we got the commitment of the american people not to fall apart, but to fight back. >> okay. the president will be departing any minute now for texas where he'll attend the dedication of the george w. bush presidential library tomorrow. a young republican congressman tom cotton of arkansas has found reason for comparison on the house floor today. i'd like you to listen to this, sir. >> and barely four years in office, five jihadists have reached their targets in the united states under barack obama. in over seven years after 9/11, under george w. bush, how many terrorists reached their target

in the united states? zero. >> so this is an excuse to lament the loss of the great george w. bush as our commander in chief? is that right? >> it's too sickening to comment. but he just passed over who was president when america suffered the greatest international terrorism in our entire history. and the president dismissed notice of it while he was on vacation in texas. so if he's going to charge these acts of terror to president obama, i hope americans are kind enough not to attach what happened in new york on 9/11 to president bush. >> congressman charles rangel, as ever, sir, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, martin. next, with events in boston, the subject of drones becomes murky. stay with us. >> if the purpose of terrorism is to instill fear, you saw none of it here in boston.

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from early interviews with dzhokhar tsarnaev it would appear the war on terror may have provoked him and his brother to do the unthinkable. laying bombs at the finish line of the boston marathon last week. and it is that war that's the focus of a new book, "dirty wars: the world is a battlefield." it's published this week. joining us now is its author, jeremy scahill. i should point out, jeremy, the book is also the subject of a documentary you yourself have made. let me start by asking you about the motivation of these two

individuals. because your book suggests that the actions of america overseas have been directly provocative in terms of encouraging people in some kind of holy war against america. >> right. i mean, first of all, at the risk of seeming out of place on cable news, i don't really want to speculate as to what the motives of these guys actually were. a lot of what we understand right now -- >> that's not speculation. it's according to the -- this is according to interviews conducted at the bedside of dzhokhar tsarnaev. >> i'm saying that we're seeing these leaked into the media from investigators. if you remember what happened after the raid on osama bin laden's compound, almost every single thing that john brennan said happened in that room that night didn't happen. there wasn't the use of a woman as a human shield. you know, there were all of these things. i just am saying i think we need to be careful about assigning a certain motive to these guys before we start to have a judicial process where we actually see evidence. having said that and to get to your other point, i'm very concerned that what we're doing in yemen, somalia, pakistan and

elsewhere is going to result in these wars coming home to america in a very, very real way. and i think there's going to be blowback from our actions around the world if we don't start to try to understand the motivation of the people that might want to attack the united states. >> you really believe? >> i believe it to my core. as an american, it's one of the things that keeps me up at night. i think that if we don't wake up to the impact our actions are having around the world, we face having increased terrorism, acts of terrorism at home. i think it's a very real possibility. >> the cztsarnaevs and awlaki sm to share a commonality. both are upset at the deaths of innocent civilians. one goes and bombs innocent civilians while the other pens a hit list against them. how do you explain that differential? >> one of the -- anwr awlaki was very much a product of what happened in the bush era with u.s. foreign policy. he came from a very upstanding family. i know his parents very well.

they are not anwr awlaki. they have incredible respect and admiration for the united states. they didn't raise him to be the man that you've seen in these videos where he's wearing the camouflage jacket. the question you have to ask, i delve in in the book, how did he become that man we then saw in the youtube videos calling for armed jihad against the united states? it really is a story how he was transformed by the events following 9/11. he was a media superstar condemning the 9/11 attacks, calling for tolerance. all these things are true. what motivates them to do these actions? what you're referring to specifically i think is one of the most reprehensible things i've seen that's come from awlaki. he published a list of individual cartoonists that had drawn cartoons of the prophet mohammed and called for them to be killed including this cartoonist in seattle who had to go into underground. he should have been held accountable for that. awlaki had a much broader world view. he viewed this clash of the

united states against islam and took very seriously bush calling it a crusade. we could talk about this incident and that incident with awlaki. there's a whole bucketful of reprehensible things that man said and potentially did. we should see the evidence. there should have been a judicial process where he as an american citizen had a right to respond to the evidence against him. it's one of the core things that's supposed to make the united states the united states. the right to face your accusers. >> speaking of drones, rand paul, senator rand paul said this on tuesday. take a listen. >> if someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, i don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kim kills him. but it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone and they want to watch your activity. >> senator paul to be fair to him did amend those comments later. after his filibuster in march, you tweeted a person could be disgusted with mr. paul, but still think he's doing the right thing on this subject.

do you still believe that? >> i think that what we did in that filibuster, i would put it this way. i think that about 33% of what happened on the floor of that senate that day was some of the most sane talk we've had about drones in this country. putting aside the idea of president obama wanting to kill jane fonda in a gorilla cafe in park slope, brooklyn, or something like that. reading into the record, responsible reporting from people like spencer ackerman and noah shackman who've done great reporting on this. commentary from people that have gone to the heart of what this issue is about, extrajudicial killing. reading that stuff into the record, 1that was the first tim we've talked about in this country on the floor of the senate the killing of anwr awlaki's 16-year-old son. 33% was sane. the rest was this crazy tea party carnival full of just nuttiness and extraneous stuff no one actually takes seriously. it does a disservice that we don't have serious politicians in this country willing to have a spine on this issue and ask the right questions.

we had the first hearing on drones in the senate yesterday. a first time a yemenese civilian testified on the floor of the u.s. senate. we need more of that. we need to listen to the people on the other side of the missile. we need congress people with spine in this country and not just leave it to a random guy like rand paul to stand up and be the only guy talks about this. quite frankly i don't find him credible on anything. it was a sad day but a good thing he started the conversation. >> jeremy scahill, "dirty wars: the world is a battlefield." thank you. next, the true cost of austerity. a theory te debunked brilliantly by a u-mass grad student. >> it's counterproductive. >> they're using it over europe. they love it so much they have celebrations in the street sometimes with fire and everything. ♪

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the american people know that washington has a spending problem. >> what you got here? >> spaghetti, peas and some veggies. >> every american knows washington has a spending problem. >> i defend on that for one good meal a day. >> i'm going to say it one more time. >> hi, meals on wheels. >> it's time for washington to deal with its spending problem. >> house speaker john boehner says his unique role in washington, d.c., is to lead the fight against what he calls this nation's out of control spending. it's a noble goal. but just one thing. be mindful your determination to cut government spending does not wound the most vulnerable members of our society. like the elderly. the meals on wheels program which delivers over a million lunches and dinners to the elderly every day is just one vital program now suffering at the hands of sequestration. according to the meals on wheels

association of america, 19 million meals will be lost as a result. now, i can imagine what you'll say, mr. speaker. you'll say what you always say, which is number one, the sequester isn't that harmful and, number two, it's the president's fault anyway. but before you offer your te tedious talking points i do wonder if you ever think about what these meals mean to seniors like 98-year-old frances haskell from tennessee. it's bad enough your philosophy of cutting spending as the economy recovers isn't working anywhere in the world, but what about the fact that frances haskell depends on that program for her one good meal of the day. you know, for a man famous for weeping, do you shed a single tear for a near centenarian about to lose this essential service? because if you don't, you should keep one thing in mind. nations are judged not by how

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pipes that prevent information from being shared. >> the members come out of this briefing with wildly different assessments. >> the homeland security department let all americans down. >> i would say there was training, there was sophistication. >> what a massive screw up. the guy was posting jihad garbage on the internet. >> the news media are doing to dzhokhar what they did to trayvon martin. showing a photo that was taken when he was about 14. soft, angelic, nice little boy. >> muslim jihadists are a threat to the world. yet president obama will not say that. >> my problem with this administration is that their policies are failing. >> this shows how we need better immigrants. >> we're going to have to cut off muslim students from coming to this country for some period of time. >> should we really be teaching them nuclear physics? >> what other theology in this world justifies murdering innocent people? only radical islam. >> we've sort of asked the moderate muslim community to go

out and say, look, will you control these people? >> they are not helping to neutralize the jihad. >> that includes american muslims. >> i want us to be able to go through this process in a way that does not demonize the entire religion of islam. >> we have now an emerging problem here. people living in the united states, maybe citizens, maybe lived here their whole lives, who are being radicalized. we need to stop playing political correctness with it. >> stay with us. we have one more sound bite that we wanted to include. take a listen to this. >> let's have that conversation that i think is so vital to, again, not only the discussion of ideas, but ultimately finding conclusions. if at the end of the day you have an idea and i have an idea but at the end of the day we can't -- how you doing, appreciate it! thank you! >> that was, of course, mark sanford having a fabricated debate with a poster of nancy pelosi. let's get right to our guest. representative keith ellison, democrat of minnesota, joins us

now. good afternoon, sir. i know you've rushed out. so thank you for doing so. >> certainly. thank you. >> as the only muslim member of congress, do you get tired of having to defend an entire religion when incidents like that in boston happen? >> well, you know, of course, this is something i do more than i'd like to. but, you know, i often welcome the opportunity to talk to people about how, you know, it's not about america versus islam. it's about all americans of all faiths against people who commit horrific acts of terrorism. the muslim community denounces these peep aople and joins with other americans to do so. you would think i wouldn't have to keep saying it but, you know, as long as i have to say it i am going to say it. americans need to hear that this is a highly diverse country. it includes muslims who do everything from drive cabs to practice medicine to be on the tv and even here in congress.

are part of our community. this is no time for americans to turn on each other. it's a time for us to turn to each other. remembering that, you know, muslims were among -- have been among victims of american terrorism. particularly in 9/11. but also have been first responders as well. and have made awesome contributions to our society. so as long as i have to remind people of that, i'm going to do it. even if you would think that, you know, folks would know that. >> how do you address those who say that in places as far apart as the philippines and nigeria, there are violent jihadist groups who say they are waging war in the name of allah and the cause of islam? >> well, those people are doing that. i mean, boca haram is a budge of fanatics who are deadly and lethal. and they exist.

but, remember, nigeria, the most populous country in africa, is over half muslim. and boca haram is a tiny organization. and there have been some really promising efforts that muslims and christians working on interfaith stuff. by the way, boca haram attacks and kills muslims all the time. my point is, those people are out there, but people who would kill and maim at an abortion clinic or at a women's health center in america, they identify with a certain religious orientation. >> they certainly do. >> they say they're christian. the ku klux klan. the ku klux klan is known for burning crosses, a christian symbol. of course, we all know that, you know, there have been people of the jewish faith who've committed acts of terrorism, too. this should not reflect on the community that these fanatics come from. and the fact is, is that we've just got to remind people of

that. timothy mcveigh does not -- did not -- was not representing christians or catholics when he did what he did. and -- but we also should point out that, you know, a lot of muslims have been involved in thwarting and preventi ining acf terrorism. >> yes. >> just in canada the other day they thwart an act of terrorism. muslims were involved in tipping off the government there. this has happened to a very high degree here in the united states, too. it's just one of those situations where we got to keep on talking until we don't need to anymore. it's not an enviable position, but as long as americans want to talk about issues of security and religion and faith, i'm going to be here to talk about it. i feel a certain responsibility to help people understand each other a little better. >> of course, we're very grateful to you for coming on. vice president joe biden spoke today in boston at the funeral for the policeman at mit who was shot to death.

i'd like you to take a listen to what he said, sir. >> yes, sir. >> this is a diverse campus. probably the greatest technological university in the world. it's black, it's white, it's muslim, it's christian, it's jewish, it's hindu. that's who we are. >> mr. ellison, the vice president says that's who we are. but there are plenty of commentators who say that's no longer who we want to be. >> yeah, well, you know, the vice president really describes the actual situation on not just m.i.t. campus but america all over. some people don't want america to be a pluralistic society where everybody respects everyone else's individuality and diversity. but, you know, we've always had people like that. in fact, the greater part of our history has been people -- has been made up of people who wanted to relegate some to the sidelines and others to the back

of the bus and others to the concentration camps. i mean, we've had that story told. but, you know, we're now at a space in american history where we recognize the deck dignity of all people, the diversity. we see it as a strength, not weakness. i commend the vice president for reminding americans of that. because americans have goodwill which is the overwhelming majority know what the vice president said is true. now, you're going to have the people who want to whip up hate, hysteria. you're going to have the people who want to point fingers and assign blame. but, you know, all of us know that we're all basically the same. we all love this country. we all believe that america should remain a diverse and inclusive place. that in and of itself is sometimes a struggle. >> indeed, it is. congressman keith ellison, sir, thank you again. coming up, next, the president is ready for takeoff and his predecessor is ready for a return to the public eye.

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joining us now is krystal ball, my colleague and co-host of "the

cycle" and jonathan alter, columnist with bloomberg view and msnbc political analyst. i want to start if i might, chr krystal, by showing you this article. george w. bush is victim of a rush to judgment. he has a book out in the same name. have we judged him too soon? eight years in the presidency. we knew about his whole life when his father was in power. >> we've had a while to get to know the gentleman and to think about him. in fact, i think some of the bump in the polls that he's experienced recently is a combination of two things. number one, i think his presidency, it's a bit like childbirth. you know, it's awful while you're having it. a while later you kind of forget just how awful it was. >> and you have another child. >> i don't know about that. let's not go that far. >> that's what my wife told me. we have three. what can i tell you. >> i do think we've forgotten a bit. part of that is because we don't feel quite as frightened. we aren't so in the midst of the

financial crisis anymore. so it's easier to look back and say, oh, maybe it wasn't so bad. i think the other thing that he benefits from right now is the comparison to a republican party that frankly has gone completely off the rails. i mean, compared to rick santorum and todd aiken and herman cain, he does hold up pretty well. >> jon, have we rushed to judgment on mr. bush? >> no, i don't think we have. but it is true that presidential reputations go up and down in history. when he left office, harry truman was very unpopular. and then later there were, you know, reassessments of him. that's been true of most of our presidents. but the problem for george w. bush is he just has less to work with when it comes to presidential rehabilitation. the smartest thing that he's done is to stay quiet. >> yes. >> over the last four years. so he seems like a less partisan figure. and that lets him be more popular because he hasn't been

in there like tick cheney taking shots at president obama. but the fact remains that presidents are only remembered for a couple of big things that happened when they're in office. and i think we now do know, and it's not a rush to judgment, to say that those two big things were a trillion dollar war in iraq that was unnecessary. a war of choice, as they said. and it was the wrong choice. almost everybody agrees with that now. and the worst economic recession since the great depression. and that happened on his watch. >> indeed. >> so it's very interesting watching people try to blame obama for the bad economy. you can blame him for not recovering faster. but you can't blame him -- >> watching the exit polls of the last election, they didn't do that. >> historians can do that. >> they didn't. >> they can't blame him for this happening on his watch. that's on bush's -- >> we know that. bush spoke with the dallas morning news recently. at the end of the interview he talks about his painting. here's what he says.

people are surprised, of course, some people are surprised i can even read. >> you got to give him points for that. >> we do. >> he does have a sense of humor. >> he does. was he or has he been subjected to really a very cruel critique? >> i mean, certainly there was a caricature of him. that sort of rick perry actually lived up to that maybe george w. bush didn't quite live up to. but as jonathan's pointing out, whatever you think of his intelligence, and i would say that he has a lot of interpersonal intelligence, whatever you think of that, you cannot deny the facts of him getting us into two wars. of irresponsibly cutting taxes. not only does this president obama get blamed for the economy, he also gets blamed for the deficit and the debt. and by 2019, half of our debt will be -- just because of the wars and the tax cuts. >> krystal ball and jonathan alter, i wish we had more time. thank you. a reminder, we will have special coverage of the bush

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you're looking live at the president and the first lady prepare to depart for texas. they will attend the dedication of the bush presidential library as well as a memorial service at baylor university to honor the victims of that fertilizer plant explosion in west, texas. joining us now is nbc's kristen welker. kristen, more on texas in a bit, but i'd like to start with the con troertroversy over the fbi' handling of the tsarnaev brothers going as far back as 2011. the white house is facing a lot of questions over the fbi's handling. how is the white house responding? >> reporter: well, martin, right now the fbi is -- the white house, i should say, is standing firmly behind the fbi. although deflecting most questions back to the fbi. the fbi is making the case that, look, when russia asked them to look into tamerlan tsarnaev, the

older brother, back in 2011, they did that. they didn't find any ties to any extremist groups or any extremist behavior. when they asked russia for more information, russia essentially didn't give it. that's what the fbi is saying. so they believe they followed protocol. right now the white house standing behind them for that. >> now to texas, kristen. the white house -- is the white house concerned at all about the sight of the president standing side by side with the man that many have accuse him of campaigning against for the last number of years? >> reporter: i don't think so, martin. if you look at all of these presidents, past presidents, they've really criticized, if not campaigned against one another at some point in time. and i think that there's a certain amount of intrigue that goes along with an event like this. the presidents club all being together. people quite interested in watching them interact, the chemistry between them. the last time they were all together was back in 2009 when

president obama was just taking office. so i think to some extent, this type of an event does transcend politics. martin? >> indeed, it does. nbc's kristen welker, as ever. thank you, kristen. we'll be right back to clear the air. ♪

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it's time now to "clear the air." just this morning the normally methodical and sometimes tedious atmosphere of the house appropriations subcommittee on transportation erupted in fury. the cause was the presence of faa administrator michael huerta. the subject was the sequester and its impact on air travel. and it didn't take long for all hell to break loose. >> this imperial attitude on the part of the administration, and you're the most recent example of that imperialism, is

disgusting. how come you didn't tell us about this beforehand, the sequester impact on the layoffs, furloughs? not a word. not a breath. >> now, mr. rogers has every reason to be livid. not least because, as a republican congressman, he represents the fifth congressional district in kentucky. and, therefore, relies heavily on air travel to get him to and fro the capital every week. his blistering criticism was very specific. he accused the administration of being imperial and the faa of doing absolutely nothing to warn congress about the impact of the sequester. which got us thinking about the last time the faa's administrator spoke before congress. now, that would be in february. >> we're looking at all options to reduce costs. but to reach the large figure we need to get, we have little choice but to make up the rest through furloughing employees.

this is not something that we take lightly. >> i'm sorry? you said this back in february? >> unlike a government shutdown, under the sequester, almost all of our employees would be affected. even what we would traditionally called essential personnel. the vast majority of our employees including these essential workers would have to be furloughed. >> hang on. i'm a bit confused by this. >> how come you didn't tell us about this beforehand, the sequester impact on the layoffs? >> the vast majority of our employees, including these essential workers, would have to be furloughed. >> how come you didn't tell us about this beforehand, the sequester impact on the layoffs? >> we have little choice but to make up the rest through furloughing employees. >> not a word. not a breath. >> okay. well, maybe a little memory loss there. no bother. he is wearing ted baxter's jacket. but what about his other serious and angry allegation, that this

administration is imperial and has no interest in engaging with ordinary americans? i bet the secretary of transportation has done absolutely nothing to warn the public. >> these are harmful cuts with real world consequences that'll cost jobs and hurt our economy. look, this is very painful for us because it involves our employees. but it's going to be very painful for the flying public. >> hmm. both the faa and the administration made it abundantly clear that the sequester would have devastating effects on air travel. but the good congressman from kentucky still voted for it. yet today he woke up and he didn't like what he'd voted for. do you see the problem? mr. rogers went to washington. and like so many republicans, he caught a very, very bad case of amnesia. thanks so much for watching. remember, c